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in between other
events...
An e-mail conversation
between Swedish art critic, Daniel Birnbaum, and the Danish/Norwegian
artist duo Michael Elmgreen & Ingar Dragset.
Daniel Birnbaum:
Please tell me a bit about your project " Zwischen anderen Ereignissen
" in Leipzig...
Michael Elmgreen:
Our show at Galerie für Zeitgenössiche Kunst in Leipzig
was our first institutional solo exhibition in Germany. During the
last couple of years there has been this tendency all over Europe
to produce ambitious and spectacular shows. So we started to think
about all the activity that lies in between these shows, all the
preparations and the labor of installing such giant art events.
In the end we decided to focus on that : To use our production budget
to employ two craftsmen from the city of Leipzig and let them paint
the entire kunsthall white - over and over again - throughout the
duration of exhibition, which was approximately seven weeks. An
almost endless renovation of the space. We wanted to highlight this
important though unnoticed side of the process of exhibiting. The
intension was to expand the little "time gap" that is usually only
a week or so in between two shows. And turn this gap into the show
itself.
Ingar Dragset :
In previous works we've been dealing with the issue of borderl ines
in a physical way - works that have been penetrating the architecture
which divides the art institution from the surrounding environment.
In Leipzig the work was situated in a kind of inter-time-zone...
in the break between two other art events. At the same time we tried
to make a link between the institution and its surroundings by interfering
with the social situation of the city. Leipzig has, as a lot of
other cities in the former eastern part of Germany, an extremely
high rate of unemployment.
DB: I know that
you've done works involving white paint before. What is it that
interests you with the color white?
ME : White has throughout
the history of modern art been considered something neutral, basic
and objective. It's the favorite background color for art presentation
( the white cube ). In our works we often create situations that
point out that the color white is as loaded and coded as any other
color. In Mexico we painted a white cube gallery white for 12 hours,
with 160 liters of white paint, and washed it down again, so that
the paint was floating onto the floor and trashing the whole gallery,
dissolving its structure. In this context the work got some extra
political connotations - two white guys messing up a white cube
gallery. Suddenly there was nothing pure about that color. In Denmark
we did the same, but this time the work was perceived in a completely
different way. The strict architecture of the gallery seemed to
be turned into a wild winter landscape, with all the paint dripping
from the walls and making patterns on the floor. The American art
critic, Bill Arning, wrote in a gay porn magazine about this work,
that the splashing of white paint reflected ejaculations. For us
it's important to deal with this kind of openness of the work...
to accept that the perception of our artistic expressions will be
different, depending on the context, that the works can be read
from different angles. To re-organize structures and to interrupt
what is considered logical, is something that is symptomatic for
our working method. The color white fits with that. Because it has
got this odd reputation of having an impact of strict logic.
DB: Ingar, the temporal
inbetween-ness of this piece will not keep it from being quite physical.
What kind of work is this, a performance?
ID : We don't see
a point in making anti-physical works. Binary oppositions are not
interesting. It might be wrong to label this work a "performance".
We prefer the term "live installation" - as the material has a central
position in the visual expression : The human activity and the material
together. In an interview with Hans Ulrich Obrist, he said that
he considered our sculptural pieces quite performative and that
our live acts, on the other hand, were very much based on material.
Again a situation of inbetween-ness. In the Leipzig show the aspect
of time was just more obvious compared to some of our previous installations.
DB : What does the
fact that you work together imply for your projects? Are they less
subjective?
ID : Our collaboration
demands an ongoing dialogue. The artistic outcomes are frozen images
of these dynamics... of this stream of process... rather than final
results. And I don't think you can say that our projects are less
subjective because of our collaboration. We don't believe any statement
can be really objective. Maybe we have created a kind of collective
subjectivity.
DB : The personal
is the political, it's been said. Since you both live together and
work together - often with politically quite charged projects -
it would maybe be of interest to hear how these different levels
of 'practice' relate in your work (and life).
ID: We have the great
advantage being able to discuss our projects over breakfast, without
the other person being totally bored or annoyed. We don't have to
divide our lives into working hours and spare time. As we share
most things in our lives, it is possible to transfer our everyday
experiences into our more conceptual practice. Things are mixed
from our own private sphere with "broader" or more theoretical issues.
Being two might give you the possibility to become less narrow minded...
Concerning your self image and your perception of your own identity.
DB: Michael, since
you mention the importance of cultural and geographical context
for your work, it would be interesting to have a few remarks about
how you would prepare yourself for a show in a context like Slovenia.
ME: We’ll make
a project that is very much based on a dialogue with artists and
young art dealers living in Ljubljana. A situation of close communication
is always of great importance for us - whether it’s with other
artists, a curator, technicians or with other people involved in
our projects. It is quite banal, but part of any preparation for
going to a new place to show your art work should be to have an
interest in that place. To be willing to learn something new yourself.
One shouldn’t merely give but also have the ability to receive
something from the context. That is a common problem in so much
cultural activity today - everyone wants to express themselves while
nobody is listening. I was always very embarrassed about the souvenirs
my parents brought home from the places they visited. Today, I see
a lot of my colleagues only bringing slides of their own work from
the different locations, where they exhibited.
Originally published
in Manifesta 3, catalogue, 2000
Daniel Birnbaum is
a curator and art critic and director of IASPIS, Sweden
Lives and works
in Stockholm
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