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don't get shirty
(with me)
Jonathan Monk in
conversation with Douglas Gordon, September 1994.
J. What do you know
about my work?
D. It's strange because
I don't really know so much about your work . I suppose this is
the nature of the way things are in Glasgow right now. Everyone
knows who is busy, but those people are busy doing things in other
places, so it's difficult to get a handle on what people are up
to exactly. So, at the moment you are heading for Copenhagen, and
this is your first one-person show?
J. Yes.
D. And its in a private
gallery, which is still quite an unusual thing for people like us,
in Glasgow, to get used to because it's not part of our culture.
J. But it feels good.
Initially I was asked to curate a group show but the timing wasn't
right, so I suggested I do a solo show. It's no problem. And working
with a young gallery like Nicolai is good. There isn't so much pressure
for huge sales, although that would be nice.
D. What's the most
expensive piece of work you've sold?
J. Probably one of
the holiday paintings. From an exhibition at the CCA in Glasgow
a few years ago. I started this series of paintings in 1992. Initially
I was asked to make some paintings for a club, a night-club in the
city quite near to the gallery. So, I made some paintings of advertisements
for holidays; the type of places where people might go to for a
rave or whatever. Places like Ibiza, or the south of Italy. The
idea was that the painting represented the idea of the holiday,
the idea of an escape - and this could be bought for the same price
as the experience itself.
D. So, people could
make the choice to go on holiday or have one of your paintings.
Do you still make these paintings?
J. I haven't made
any for a while but they are still available. There is a list of
over 1000 that you can look through and choose from, like a brochure.
D. I've got a note
in front of me that lists what I know of your work. I've got your
Holiday Paintings, Pissing in the Sand, the Drunken Photos, the
Bottle of Beer video that we made together, the stuff you made around
the group KISS, your paintings of Notes On Doors and walls, the
My Little Toilet show that you curated, an early text piece Can
None Of You Fuckers Speak English, and the Sandwiches For Sale print
edition. I know that there's more than this but even so, I can see
a clear social strategy here. It's nothing so esoteric as Duchamp's
attitude to the ready-made, but more to do with connecting certain
social activities with the art world, and sometimes bringing the
art world into contact with specific social occasions. I'm thinking
here about My Little Toilet.
J. Yes, My Little
Toilet. I just invited a group of artists to make work for my toilet,
I even let it spill out into the hall. I liked the idea that things
had to be so specific, you had to work in such a shitty little space.
That appealed to me. To have art entirely stuck in the gallery context
is kind of crap really.
D. Talking about
My Little Toilet, you showed one of your Pissing in the Sand pieces
there. I always thought they should be called pissing in the wind,
haha.
J. Cheeky! I guess
those pieces came from reading a book about the life of Jackson
Pollock where, as a child, he and his older brother would try and
piss their names in the sand. I know it's a kind of macho bravado
thing, but it's quite funny. So, I just went to the beach with a
bottle of water and pissed my name. You see a picture of me pissing
and one with my name beautifuly written in the sand, you are left
to decide whether I did it or cheated. Similarly with the Drunken
Photographs where I'd said I'd drunk 10 pints. This is playing with
those stupid teenage bragging sessions. 'Yeah, I drunk 10 pints
last night and I don't even have a hangover today etc.' Alcohol
mythology.
D. And this work
kind of relates to the pieces that you are showing in Copenhagen.
J. Yeah.
D. Have you seen
the drinking works that Gilbert and George made, they're great.
J. Yes, like the
gin and tonic ones. Andy Warhol also made a film about a guy who
drank a bottle of whiskey. He drank it and tried to leave the building
and fell asleep, of course Andy kept the film rolling... It looks
like a good movie.
D. Its like the holiday
paintings again; the idea of the holidays is a certain escapism
and now your on to drink, and we all know the kind of oblivion involved
with alcohol. And not only a state of oblivion, but I've seen you,
and I'm sure you've seen me, in states of total euphoria.
J. Yeah, remember
that work we tried to make in Budapest with both of us in a room
together, sitting at opposite corners. Both of us are blind drunk
but one of us is laughing whilst the other one is crying, and then
vice versa.
D. And it's not just
us. I mean, remember the night at the Fruitmarket Gallery when Ross
(Sinclair) did his performance. And Graham Gussin made a film of
himself having just drunk a bottle of calvados.
J. And the Wilson
twins on LSD in Vienna.
D. Why are we doing
these things?
J. Generation X?
D. Don't make me
laugh. I can't afford the time or money to bum around like that
dopey guy in Wynona Ryder's film. It makes me sick.
J. Oh, you're such
a Calvinist. The way I see it is if it is something that you enjoy,
you should do it, why make things difficult. I guess it also has
something to do with experimenting. Most people we know drink and
maybe take drugs so its just taking it and making art out of it.
D. One of the pieces
that you are going to be showing is the 'get shirty' piece. This
is going to be a good white shirt that has beer spillage down it.
And it's a relic or a prop from an action/performance that you made
in the Mitre bar, in Glasgow. How will you present it?
J. This time I'm
showing a videotape of the event itself and the prop, which is the
shirt, left at the end of the performance. The tape will show me
standing on the bar at the Mitre and drinking a yard of ale. So,
again it's quite a traditional thing to do amongst certain people
in Britain, and it's also a another quick way to oblivion. I can
vouch for that.
D. You are working
with attitudes, desires and activities that have a certain urban
mythology attached to them. Are you trying to create a myth for/of
yourself ? Is the beer stained shirt just a prop or do want it to
be seen as a relic, much in the same way as Beuys' suit or hat?
J. Only time will
tell, haha. I guess its a prop and a relic, if you will.
D. What else will
be in the show as well as 'Get Shirty'?
J. I've made some
new monochrome paintings based on those table tops you get in old
bars; the ones that are three feet by one foot with the legs screwed
down to the floor so you don't knock them over when you are drunk.
It all came about quite naturally as I was sitting in the pub waiting
for someone and I thought the rings left by the bottom of my pint
looked interesting That's basically what the painting will be, black
or grey paintings with beer marks on them. I think the context of
showing work related to beer and drinking in Copenhagen is pretty
appropriate, at least in relation to my previous visits. You know
it's really expensive to buy a pint of beer in Denmark. But does
that stop them? Not likely, mate. It's a real drinking culture,
so I'm sure that Nicolai and everyone will understand the work quite
well.
D.
So the context has people well prepared.
J. Yeah, and within
the gallery each work refers to another. Like, just round the corner
from the paintings, and across from the video and shirt will be
quite a melancholic piece made with a carpet; there is a little
space off the main gallery and I am going to install a carpet, in
white or cream, and spill a single glass of red wine on it.
D. How will we know
that it's wine? Obviously it could be something else.
J. I think it is
ambiguous, but within the show it should be clear. It's a sad scenario
of the lonely drinker, spilling those last drops of wine. The thought
that it could be blood is also sad.
D. Very lonely. It
seems very British to be dealing with these things; escape, oblivion
and humour. Perhaps not so much within the art tradition, but definitely
within the culture of British comedy. All those tragic-comics that
were still around when we were children. Like Tommy Cooper, god
bless 'im. I really wanted to do a show with him you know.
J. Or, Tony Hancock,
Benny Hill, Dick Emery.
D. Les Dawson.
J. Morecambe & Wise.
D. Oh yes, Morecambe
and Wise! They kind of sum things up in many ways. Remember that
song they used to sing to each other at the end of each show ?
J. It was called
'Bring Me Sunshine'.
D. Do you know the
lyrics ?
J. Bring me sunshine,
in your smile.
D. Bring me laughter,
all the while.
J. In this world
where we live, there should be more happiness.
D. So much joy you
can give to each brand new bright tomorrow!
Together. Make me
happy, through the years. Never bring me any tears. Let your arms
be as warm as the sun from up above, Bring me fun, bring me sunshine,
bring me love. Bring me sunshine in your eyes, Bring me rainbows
from the skies. Life's too short to be spent having anything but
fun. We can be so content if we gather little sunbeams. Be light
hearted, all day long. Keep me singing happy songs. Let your arms
be as warm as the sun from above, Bring me fun, bring me sunshine,
bring me love.
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